Pence Must Testify on Jan. 6 Grand Jury, Judge Rules

A federal judge has ordered former Vice President Mike Pence to appear before a grand jury investigating former President Donald J. Trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election, largely overriding two separate legal efforts by Mr Pence and Mr Trump to limit his rights. testimony, according to two people familiar with the matter.

Monday's twin rulings, by Judge James E. Boasberg at Federal District Court in Washington, are the latest setbacks in Trump's legal team's bid to limit the scope of questions prosecutors can ask witnesses close to him in a separate investigation into his case. efforts to maintain his grip on power after his election defeat and handling of classified documents after he left office.

In the weeks leading up to the attack on the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob on January 6, 2021, Trump repeatedly urged Pence to use his ceremonial role of overseeing congressional Electoral College vote counting to block or delay his certification. defeat.

Prosecutors have sought to coerce Mr Pence to testify about Mr Trump's charges against him, which aides of Mr Pence thoroughly documented in testimony last year to the House select committee investigating the January 6 riots and what led to them. he.

This month, Mr. Trump asked Judge Boasberg's predecessor as the chief justice of the trial, Beryl A. Howell, to limit Mr. Pence by claiming that certain matters are off limits because of executive rights, which protect certain communications between the president and some members of his administration.

At the same time, Pence's attorneys asked to limit his testimony by arguing that his role as president of the Senate meant he was protected from scrutiny by the executive branch – including the Department of Justice – under the “speech or debate” of the Constitution. clause. The provision is intended to protect the separation of powers.

While Judge Boasberg issued a clear ruling against Trump's attempts to assert executive privilege, his ruling on the “speech or debate” clause was more nuanced, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The judge upheld the idea that Mr Pence was protected under “speech or debate” based on his role in overseeing the passing of the election inside the Capitol on January 6. But Judge Boasberg also said Mr Pence must testify to a grand jury about Mr Trump's potential illegal conduct, said a person familiar with the matter.

People close to Mr Pence have been saying for weeks that they hoped he would have to testify to some degree before a grand jury. The New York Times reports that the Justice Department has been seeking an interview with Pence since late last year.

Judge Boasberg's decision on Mr Pence comes a little over a week after Judge Howell ruled that more than half a dozen other former Trump administration officials – including Mark Meadows, Mr Trump's last chief of staff – cannot invoke executive privilege to avoid testifying to a grand jury. investigate Mr. Trump's attempt to overturn the election.


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The ruling by Judge Howell, who stepped down as presiding judge on March 17, paved the way for grand jury testimony from Mr. Meadows; one of the representatives, Dan Scavino; Robert C. O'Brien, who served as national security adviser; John Ratcliffe, former director of national intelligence; and Stephen Miller, one of Mr.'s key speechwriters and advisers. Trump.

Mr. Trump and several witnesses in the election inquiry have tried for months to limit the scope of grand jury testimony, encouraging the behind-the-scenes skirmishes that took place – like all matters involving jurors – in closed court filings and closed trials.

Mr Pence was one of the last major witnesses to dispute the limits of grand jury testimony. Two of his closest aides – Marc Short and Greg Jacob – were ordered to appear before a grand jury last year, as were two of the top attorneys in the White House Mr. Trump, Pat A. Cipollone and Patrick F. Philbin.

In one of his last acts as presiding judge, Judge Howell issued a similar ruling in an investigation of classified documents. He ordered that M. Evan Corcoran, an attorney for Mr Trump, must testify to the grand jury conducting the investigation regardless of any attorney-client privilege assertion he made on Mr Trump's behalf.

In making his decision, Judge Howell found that the prosecutor in the office of special counsel, Jack Smith, who oversaw both grand jury investigations, had met the threshold for what is known as a fraud-crime exemption. It allows prosecutors to work around attorney-client privilege if they have reason to believe that legal advice or services were used to further a crime.

In the federal investigation into Mr Trump's attempts to stay in power, Mr Pence has always been a potentially important witness given the central role he played by refusing to follow Mr Trump's demands on January 6 and the conversations he participated in. at the White House in the weeks before the riots.

Publicly and privately, Mr. Trump tried to pressure Mr. Pence to take part in a plan to deny Joseph R. Biden Jr. the certification of Electoral College victory.

Getting Mr. Pence to agree to violate the Constitution on the critical date of January 6 is part of a plan by Trump supporters that also includes creating at least the impression that there is an alternative pro-Trump electorate from the swing states Mr. Biden is clearly winning. The electorate's plans are being watched by federal prosecutors as part of an investigation led by Mr. Smith, the special counsel overseeing the investigation into Trump for the Department of Justice.

Between November 5, 2020, and January 6, Pence was subjected to an intense pressure campaign from various Trump associates outside the government, including John Eastman, an attorney who worked with the president, and from Mr. Trump himself. During that time, Mr. Pence asked his advisers to research what his powers were in relation to January 6, and then, over time, made it clear to Mr. Trump that he did not believe he had the authority the president had emphasized.

As well as shedding light on Mr Trump's role, Mr Pence's testimony could also be important in investigations of others involved in efforts to keep Mr Trump in office, including Mr Eastman.

By January 5, Trump's efforts had become so strong that Mr. Short, chief of staff Mr. Pence, summoned the vice president's Secret Service agent to his office in the West Wing to tell him that Mr. Mr. Pence, and that they may pose a security risk because of it.

The following day, Mr Trump publicly pressured Mr Pence in a rally address to a pro-Trump crowd on the Ellipse near the White House, then urged his followers to march “peacefully” and “patriotically” to the Capitol. Once there, hundreds of people stormed the building, some chanting “Hang Mike Pence!”

Mr Pence, who is considering his own presidential campaign, has since published a memoir in which he details some of the conversations he wanted investigators to have in private.